LaVon Gentry 11/4/94

Koshin's Talk 11/19/94

Notes from The Zen of Myoshin-ji Comes to the West:

Koshin 11/19/94

Ingrid 11/19/94

Kido 11/19/94

Kigen 11/19/94

Shingen 11/19/94

Kido 11/27/94

Barnaby Willett

Jim Muhs 11/29/94

Margerie Edgren 12/2/94

Kido 12/2/94

Genshu and Koshin 12/6/94

LaVon Gentry 3/25/95

LaVon Gentry 1/16/96

LaVon Gentry 1/19/96

Kido 1/20/96

Interview with LaVon Gentry, by Martha Bailey

Written up from notes:

This discussion occurred after a presentation of the MBZC Research at the 1995 Western Region meeting of the American Academy of Religion in Redlands, March 25, 1995.

LaVon mentioned that as far as he knows, MBZC is the only US center trying to stay traditional; it is for iconoclastic people, not for all Americans, although those who participate are primarily white, middle-class Americans.

The Roshi teaches a rigid, militaristic form of Zen, which seeks to unify with practice. People who go to MBZC must want to have an experience.

LaVon believes that MBZC may not last when the Roshi dies. The center is actually from a small school in Japan which allows only 80 roshis at a time. If a center dies out because there is no roshi, oh well, it was meant to be.

There are probably 300 people total who come to the mountain during a year.

Interview with LaVon Gentry, by Martha Bailey

Written up from notes made after a phone conversation, January 16,1996:

The roshi put out a book in 1972 called the Center of Gravity, published by the Rinzai-ji Zen Center. It is out-of-print, but is listed in a Buddhist handbook as a reference. The roshi did not write any more, because he is not interested in a scholarly approach to Zen, but one that is more experiential.

Interview with LaVon Gentry, by Martha Bailey

Written up from notes made during a phone conversation, January 19,1996:

M. Have there been any changes in personnel, etc., since a year ago?

L. Ingrid was ordained in the summer and is now known as Myokyo. Everyone else is still there except Genchu, who moved to the Bodhi Mandala Zen Center in New Mexico.

M. What is the Roshi's exact name: Joshu Sasaki Roshi or Kyozan Joshu Roshi?

L. Joshu is the name the roshi was given as a monk. Kyozan is a recent title he was given, to show he deserved greater respect, for he is the oldest living roshi in his line, which is very significant in the Japanese culture.

M. Is there any place to get more detailed information on the lineage in Japan that MBZC is from? Any way to find out if others were sent by them to the US?

L. There is a little about them in the Snelling handbook on Buddhism; it may tell a little more. However, I believe roshi is the only one from his monastery to be in the US.

M. Why are the monks and others all referred to as 'students' rather than 'novices,' which would probably be a better translation of the Japanese?

L. I have no idea why, they just call everyone students of the Roshi. MBZC has the formal Japanese trappings, but the meditations and informal teachings have been Americanized to meet the needs of Americans. In Japan, there is a cultural separation between monks and laity, but in the US everyone is a student, just at a different place on the same continuum: the monks are students 24 hours a day, while the others are just part-time.

M. What holidays do the monks celebrate? The newsletter I have mentions New Years celebration.

L. They celebrate all the major Japanese Buddhist holidays, including the haramatsuri, or enlightenment of the buddha, which is traditionally Dec. 8, but at MBZC is usually celebrated around Dec. 21-23, on the day after the end of the dai-sesshin known as rohatsu. They also celebrate the birth of the buddha in April. Part of the Asian ritual on that day is to bathe the baby Buddha. This is traditionally on April 8, but MBZC celebrates it on a weekend near that. The Roshi's anniversary day is celebrated annually, but it only is an elaborate celebration every 5 years. Usually it is celebrated at Rinzai-ji Center with a luncheon and service.

M. What does it mean for the roshi to be doshi at ceremonies?

L. I don't know.

M. What is the picture of in the sutra hall behind the busudan?

L. I don't know, maybe an Indian Buddha celebrated in Japanese culture.

M. Do you think there is any wya to find out how many have been ordained under the roshi?

L. Ask Kigen, it should be computerized.

M. Do you know the name of Roshi's wife? Were they married in Japan or the US? Is she Japanese? What does she do at MBZC?

L. Her name is Haruyo Sasaki. They were married in Japan and she came with him to the US. She is very much in the background. She married him to be roshi's wife and caretaker, but not to be a student of his. She has never elected to be a student. She was very traditional when she came, but has become more americanized than the roshi. She is moving out more now, which does not entirely please the roshi. She will inherit the MBZC properties when he dies.

M. Tell me about the Board--does it handle financial matters? How is it chosen? Who is it chosen from?

L. The board is over Rinzai-ji, and the roshi chairs it, and appoints people to it. Primarily long-term contributors serve on the board. Leonard Cohen presides over it, and has for years. He has been a major donor and student of the roshi's for years. Finances for MBZC come from large donations by contributors, student memberships, work, dai-sesshins, and so on.

M. What can you tell me about the "Buddhist Bible?"

L. It was translated by Dwight Goddard in the 1880s, and has translations of the major Buddhist scriptures.

M. Is there any source of more information on the Rinzai-ji community?

L. Probably nothing other than what they have written.

M. Is there any other information you can give me on the relation of MBZC to the broader Zen community and to Japanese-American Buddhism?

L. The Roshi has had Japanese Zen priests visit from Japan, and he had a few students from Japan in the 70's, who later returned to Japan. There have been a few Japanese-American students who came directly from Japan or found him here.

M. What has been westernized at MBZC, and what has been kept as essential to Zen?

L. Of all the Zen Centers, MBZC comes closest to traditional Zen, and is the most strict of all the centers in the US. They try to stay as old style as possible. The teachings are formally and officially extremely traditional.

In sanzen, informally, what the student gets is greatly influenced by the context of the student, for sanzen must fit the culture. Such changes are made to help the students understand the Zen view of truth or reality. Many do drop out, because it is too hard. The roshi will not compromise his message, but he makes subtle changes required by the context, those necessary to overcome the cultural differences, to bring US students to what the roshi sees as necessary for the the Zen path as seen by the old school. The scuttlebutt is that the Roshi is cut off from Japan and vice versa, for he says they are only making money off of people, saying whatever people want, while those in Japan say he is stuck in the old ways of the 19th century, ways that even the Japanese have changed. Yet he has a name of great respect, so in some ways this may just be a game they play, and it is possible that, for many reasons, his reputation in Japan is exaggerated.

Interview with Kido, by Martha Bailey

Done from notes taken during a phone interview, January 20, 1996:

M. What is the meaning in Japanese of Kyozan?

K. "Mountain of apricot trees." It is roshi's new osho name.

M. In the sutra hall, who is the picture of behind the butsudan?

K. It is a scroll of Kwan Yin, shown as a female figure.

M. Do you know the number of people ordained by the Roshi?

K. Full-time and lay, probably 75-100 (max).

M. What is a doshi at the ceremonies?

K. The person in charge of the ceremony. At MBZC, that is often the roshi, in his role as abbot. If he is not present, another osho will take his place.

M. What is the Rinzai-ki ceremony?

K. It is the ceremony honoring Rinzai's death; it is a funeral service often held after a dai-sesshin, usually in the spring about march or april.

Most of the ceremonies are in the winter: there are 5 big ones including new year's, nirvana day which celebrates the buddha's death, Jodo-ai which comes after Rohatsu and celebrates the buddha's enlightenment, and daruma-ki or bodhidharma's death day, bodhidharma being the mythical 29th patriarch of Indian and Chinese Buddhism. These are in addition to ordinations and weddings, etc.